They always appealed to me
In fact, Thor is my favorite character and then Cap. The Hulk has had runs that I consider to be among the top runs in history. Iron-Man, until teen Tony, was one of the most consistantly well done comics on the stands.

I never understood why Marvel never tried to push these characters hard over the X-Men. The X-Men didn't need the constant push.

Posted by Dusty. on 2008-05-08 23:27:30
you knew it all these times
I didn't seen THOR the same way after Walter Simonson's run, as I couldn't imagine SPIDERMAN on screen without having seen the MATRIX trilogy : things are mot the same since.
It must be the same for people who didn't like CAPTAIN AMERICA , or didn't really know what to do with until pulp-war come back on the top of the scene. Guillermo Del Toro use the Nazis under an interesting point of view in 'Hellboy', but I ask myself if a Cap A. movie were done, will it be envisage considering other war movies like 'Black Hawk Down ' or 'Saving Private Ryan', even for five minutes.

There was a time with many attempts to make these caracters more fashionable, now it seems that authors tend to use more the inner qualities ( specific background ,... ) of each

Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-05-09 03:53:16
Movies
The Thor title in it's recent incarnation s one of my favs, along with Immortal Iron Fist. Cap has as many twists and turns as a roller coaster, welcome to the ride! I can't say i've been following the Hulk as much but Loeb and Mcguiness are one of the best writer Penciler teams. I love to see those guys work as much as Whedon/Cassidy, who I'd have loved to see on Iron Man. It's amazing the amount of talent that is in circulation with the different books.
Those old excuses don't stand a chance!

Posted by rubixer on 2008-05-09 04:05:06
Captain America...
Cap America will likely have a movie. Especially since he's always been an Avenger.

Posted by Aziroth on 2008-05-09 08:31:24
The Good Stuff
Excellent, this is the sort of thing I find really interesting- really thinking about the core of a title, seeing what sort of meat there is in it. Figuring out what makes it tick, and what it's really about, when it all comes down. I can't wait.

Posted by Jordan D. White on 2008-05-09 09:27:32
Core 4
Writers or editors who make excuses about these characters not being popular or marketable need to be handed a copy of Origins of Marvel Comcis and Son of Origins so they understand why Stan Lee decided they were good characters for story telling in the first place. Those reasons are still compelling today and do not depend
on whatever the current political views are.

Let's turn these ideas on their head:

Iron Man - The popularity of gossip magazines proves that people
love to read about millionaires and celebrities. Donald Trump has
his own top rated show and all he does is fire people.

Thor - Fantasy was just starting to rise in popularity in the 70's and
is more popular than ever today. Thor gives you a mythological
hero that can be used to tell stories in virtually any fantasy
setting you want and better still bring those fantasy settings to
the middle of suburbia. As far as his alter ego goes, last I checked there were plenty of popular medical dramas on tv including a top rated show about a doctor with a limp.

Hulk - How long has WWE wrestling been popular and it's stories
are basically about big dumb guys beating each other up. The
audience for Hulk isn't that hard to market to. It's when you try
to get too deep and convoluted with the character that you lose
readers.

Captain America - This IS a hard sell these days because unlike
the hero one is writing about most people who still read comics
don't believe in the American ideal or the American dream. That's
why you had to kill the character because the version of America
that the original cap believed in and represented died long ago,
if it ever really existed. It's kind of side but this darker, colder
version seems to be selling so go with it.

Posted by izzatrix on 2008-05-09 13:06:34
Lame Doctor
"And his civilian identity as a lame Doctor isn't terribly sexy."

This is pretty funny, considering the popularity of the TV show 'House'.

Posted by Jason M Bryant on 2008-05-10 04:34:09
about THOR, I don't see any innovative approach, just surfing with THE LORD OF RINGS popularity who made fantasy bankable and credible again, and helped the writers to remember he is a scandinavian god.
If at last there was cyberpunk into Iron Man...against the Reavers, just for fun.


Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-05-10 06:12:41
by the way is there a chance to see Jack'O' Flagg as a new Deathlok ?
or no ?

Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-05-10 06:14:03
you got the point about HULK and his nomadism, but that's interesting to have the Hulk seen by the point of view of different people from the way he interacts with their own life, you can build a very brand new mythology with that.

I used to have a similar idea on MOONKNIGHT, a one-shot episode from the point of view of a young bad-ass, and the way Moon Knight would interact with him at diifferents times in his life, a little alike Turk was for Daredevil during Frank Miller's days.
The title of the episode would have been 'Parking son.'

Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-05-10 11:10:29
Niches
I believe that these core four have their niches and key constituencies that they appeal to. They all appeal to me but for different reasons. The problem that may be occuring with this core four is how marginalized they've become and how much they've fallen into only catering to these niches rather than exploring every aspect of their character.

Iron Man appeals to me because he is a millionaire playboy who does whatever he wants, has sex with random beautiful women, and can have whatever he wants. He is someone that every young male aspires to become. The only problem is that Iron Man's ostentations are so grandiose that it is ridiculously out of the realm of possibility for anyone to dare dream to have what he has. The lure of Iron Man is that he is a wealthy man who made himself into a super hero and that if you have enough money and enough techno-savvy you too could potentially make yourself into a super hero.

Hulk appeals to me for one simple reason, HULK SMASH HULK BASH. Hulk appeals to a male demographic that wishes to have a physical imposing dominance over all of reality. His appeal is power, pure and simple. He seems to have a power over all that is around except for himself. We all have that caveman mentality within us, whether its at the bar or at a sporting event, that causes us to want to hit something as hard as we can or run as fast as we can. He attracts testosterone junkies, the 300 demographic. The problem with him is once the movie or the comic is over you realize that becoming him is impossible. The only way to identify with the Hulk is in his dual natures as Bruce Banner and the Hulk.

Thor appeals to me because of his regal nature, additionally he is a god. This may be a blessing and a curse for the character as him being a god is attractive because of the power tied to it but is alienating because that is absolutely an unattainable reality or ability. He may be the least relatable of the four.

Captain America appeals to me because he is the embodiement of everything all young american males hope to be, a true american hero. Every trait he has is one that makes him the ultimate Alpha Male. Unfortunately, he is the consumate good guy, atleast pre Civil War Cap. No one wants to have all that power and ability and not use it atleast once in some self serving capacity.

This is my take on the core four, I know there is still much to be fleshed out but this is my initial resonse to the post.

Posted by Rajun on 2008-05-10 14:44:20
core four
i think its bc the new readership in comics that follows creators more than characters, and more than that, the bottom line is that the readership enjoys good story telling and those four characters have all kinds of potential for very human relatable stories to be told in spite of their supposed "unrelatableness"
simply put MAKE MINE MARVEL

Posted by peterparker4907 on 2008-05-11 02:09:49
really good stories are most often relatable in someway and lately these title have had really good story tellers, also one has to take into effect the straight up marvel bad @$! factor these characers have, when was the last time shadowcat threw a vibranium shield at a thugs face?

Posted by peterparker4907 on 2008-05-11 02:18:53
well because of this stupid internet connection i have two post that say the same exact thing, oh well heres an even more useless third post, also secret invasion 2 was awesome! except im really confused and impatient for number three!

Posted by peterparker4907 on 2008-05-11 02:22:59
I had the opposite feeling with Thor -- I found him boring when he didn't have the alter-ego. He really needs something to ground him in humanity and that's been done really well lately. The fantasy stuff is bonus -- it's when he's just fighting regular ol' super-villains that his grandeur gets lost.

Hulk works best as a "Fugitive" style quest that occasionally turns into a disaster movie. Cap works best as a war/spy/pulp adventurer - a nice guy who's called on to do difficult things. Iron Man works best as mix of next-Tuesday sci-fi and intrigue.

All of them sometimes end up falling into a "typical superhero" rut, where a (monster/robot/supervillain) appears, they go and deal with it, and if you're lucky there's some character development. None of that has been happening lately. They've all been hitting the right notes. That's why it's working.

Posted by aurata on 2008-05-11 12:34:55
Favourite Regular Moments with the Top Four..
When Cap swings that shield and cries out AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!
When rain starts pouring from the sky and amist the lightining there stands Thor, all bad a##.
When Hulk leaps into action and SLAMS his fist into his puny opponent.
When Tony activates all that armour and flies into the sky, a modern day knight heading into battle.

Yeah, I love the Core Four, be they a team or an individual. All of them has become my favourite and most beloved icons of comics, in particular Cap. I'm not American, and I therefore don't have him in my head as a symbol of Patriotism, but he really is a great character because Steve could stand amongst an Atlantian Prince, a 'Man' of Fire, a modern armoured knight, a huge green monster, a god with a hammer, a wise cracking web-swinger and a clawed mutant... and still command the presence and legacy of a leader.

I really hope that something like BND never happens to the big four, but with whats going on in their own selected titles, I remained content that this shouldn't happen in the near future.

Posted by Derek Metaltron on 2008-05-11 17:25:48
What's iconic to me?
Lets see...

Captain America: Sure, he's a little out of touch, but once American ideals were something to look up to. Individual rights and freedoms, a willingness to step in and do good in the world, wanting to use your power and resources for the benefit of all, and fighting those that would subjugate people for their own ends. Those were ideals that, if you take out the word 'American', are worth fighting for. In a way, I felt that Captain America stood up for all the good traits America has. And best of all his ideals could not be corrupted, which is something I admire and feel modern America could learn from.

Hulk: I don't read him much, but I do have a thing for misunderstood monsters. He's a modern day Frankenstein's Monster. Pulled and manipulated by forces beyond his sphere of influence, trying to find peace but at the same time he's pulled into fits of anger, brought on by being hunted and betrayed constantly. He relates to the disenfranchised, the misfits that are misunderstood and wanting nothing but peace and acceptance.

Thor: Old world nobility and a warrior's code. He's a fantasy character brought to life. What's not to like? Sure, it seems out of place, but you can take those noble ideas and make them your own.

Iron Man: He is not only a complex character, but he shows the power of human ingenuity, showing just what we're capable of if we put our mind and resources to it. For another example, look at the US's space program. Non powered people can do extraordinary things.

I guess the reason why these characters fall out of favor is really outside any creators' control. I'm sure nobody wants to see a star spangled hero so much these days when there's the War in Iraq reminding people of the US' dark side, or want to hear about the multi-billionaire hero cruising in his armor when people are losing their homes. Stuff happens, and its beyond our control. All you can do is make the hero stand up to his ideals and hope that translates into sales.



Posted by DRock1 on 2008-05-11 17:28:35