Non-obvious Accessibility
I prefer non-obvious accessibility. Instead of an elaborate recap page that most readers skip anyway or a new superteam where every member adresses every other member by their first names (and uses their respective superpower, if it fits the situation or not), there are little things that help a lot more. Be it the traditional Justice Leage roll call, recurring lines like "My name is Wally West, I'm the Flash, I'm the fastest man alive" or "I'm the best there is at what I do (and what I do isn't very nice)" (by the way, does that sound like the title of a Meat Loaf song to anyone else?) or just little background details in a Danger Room session, background information that isn't forced down a reader's throat usually catches on a lot better.

And if that long-established super-villain appears out of nowhere and new readers scratch their heads, there is still the good old editor's note referring to the last storyline where the two antagonists met (one could include Star System order codes, but I guess that'd be a bit much).

I don't think the traditional tools have to be abandoned for decompressed storytelling.

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-06-19 08:18:17
I disagree, Mr. Heide.
God bless the recap page. While I have a great affinity for the comics of the 70's and 80's, the pain of muddling through constant attempts by writers to successfully assimilate recaps into the body of their stories (some that dragged on for numerous pages) was largely unbearable.

Pre-recap page comics were filled with hokey, out of character soliloquies that spewed forth awkward rehashes of previous events, taking up precious space that could of been filled with fresh, new material.

I say once again, god bless the recap page.

Posted by friskydingo on 2008-06-19 12:27:20
Accessibility
I’d agree that making the stories Marvel publishes accessible to new readers is important, but your argument is diminished by the inaccessibility, for instance, of “Secret Invasion.” If one looks at the online promotions and statements re the event, he’ll find that the buildup to the event is supposed to go back to the start of NEW AVENGERS and the SECRET WAR miniseries, that people in those issues weren’t really doing what they appeared to be doing, and that to get a fuller idea of what’s going on (that the Skrulls are active in locations other than Manhattan and the Savage Land, for instance), he’ll have to buy tie-ins and one-shot issues (and deal with mistakes, such as the Skrulls in NA #41 and #6 mining (Antarctic) vibranium that is actually found in Wakanda)..

Was the “Endangered Species” storyline, spread out as it was through several X-titles, accessible to readers?

Was “Avengers Disassembled” accessible to readers? If readers interested in the Scarlet Witch’s history went looking at back issues, they’d find her remembering her children, that she didn’t use her power to conceive them, and, if they dug deeper, explanations to the effect that she remembered her children *because* she was insane, and that her insanity caused her to only imagine that the reanimated corpse she was subconsciously controlling, that caused her to forget the children in the first place, had told her that the “forget” spell had been removed.

Accessibility would be enhanced by providing a framework for the Marvel Universe that provided uncomplicated, generally applied explanations for the paranormals’ powers and by using narration to provide overviews of situations. The antipathy some readers have shown toward the thought of using narration to describe situations makes me think they’re incapable of reading prose fiction of any length: “Oh, no! The story isn’t pure dialogue! I can’t understand it!”

Events, by their nature, aren’t easily accessible.

SRS


Posted by Steven R. Stahl on 2008-06-19 13:40:08
Need for recaps
I was lucky enough when I got interested in comics that there were tv shows and cartoons that existed that featured the characters. As a result I was already familiar enough with who the characters were
that I didn't feel lost by being in the middle of a story.

The density of those old stories helped as well with 9 panels per
page. There's no way you could make sense of an Ellis, Bendis, or
Millar story if you came in in the middle without a recap page.

Heck imagine trying to make sense of Spiderman with it coming out
3 times a month. The writer couldn't even tell a story if he had to
retell the origin and background of every character constantly. You
would have the Hobbes choice of boring everyone or confusing any
new reader beyond their ability to even try the comic at all.

Posted by izzatrix on 2008-06-19 13:57:21
I have found it easier...
To get into comics now-a-days with the recap page. By all means Brevoort, keep the recapt page!

Posted by Aziroth on 2008-06-19 14:45:25
I also agreed about the recap page, but you can't tell everything in a recap page, as the background of each character, but at last it show each of them, which is a start.
This is an interesting topic because it proove the important interaction between the editoring and the writing, until some few years,before trade paperbacks days, it prooved that editoring was actually fashioning the writing : the usual onepage-panel ( okay ) and some indrotuctive about the characters.
When you picked-up your first comic,especially in the middle of a story-arc, I think the most important point in any ways is the will to know more.I you're getting interested by the story you start to discover and his characters, that's the first thing you want to know :had it/he/she been always like this, and you got the feeling to have missed such intersting things that you want absolutely to see.
My first comic-book was one episode of the X-Men's Dark Phoenix saga when they all have been battled by the Hellfire Club, and it ended with Wolverine ready to fight back.
Searching for old episode I discovered that Wolverine by Byrne is not the same that by -let's say -Cockrum ( with all respect ) but I'm sure that Byrne and Claremont planned - for reading previous stories -since Proteus and Department H- to one day really focus on Logan, which culminate with this peculiar episode.
Which is not the same when Bendis ( with all respect ) showed us a flash-back between Cap and Hawkeye in New Avengers, when you'll seek previuos episodes I'm not sure that you'll perceive the marks of this kind of relationship between the characters, I tend to think that Bendis made this sequence just to valid that Clint is a good warrior enough to be the new Ronin.
This first encountering made me want to know more about the roots of the characters.
I think you don't have to explain each new episode these roots of the personnality, if in one comic - the first you pick-up- the main character act a different way he use to ( then, you don't know ), when that's the essential point, a one you're maybe on the road to discover. When you'll read previous episodes you'll learn that he was this way and now he is that way. That's evolution, and it's particular point about comics-books, .By example, loosing Elektra and Karen Page let more pecular marks on Matt Murdock than a fight with Electro ( then..it has to be proved, okay ) , but it will surely influence him on his ways to react when he will confront porn magnats. Evolution make the reader closer with the story he's reading, whenever he jumps on the train, after it is still his choice to follow or not, but that's the main factor that made your stories something we have grow with ( warning : I didn't say to make each stories too inter-dependant, it'll be a little too mercantile too. ).
I really appreciate the Sandman paperbacks by example : 'here, this the Endless, that's all you need to know', let us decide if we want to follow or not, because in some trade, you had the feeling having read Wolverine saying twenty times the same thing.


Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-06-19 15:34:53
Don't forget the web
I agree that comics need to be accessible to new readers to grow / sustain the industry.

I would suggest that each issue provides a link to relevant Marvel Universe website pages (who doesn't have the internet these days?) which ought to be reformatted in such a way to provide the beginner with the broad strokes up front in a way that's easy to scan: give me the topline, the broadstrokes, the bullet points. Currently, most profiles launch right into the granular trivialities that you get lost in the details.


Posted by B.Serum on 2008-06-19 23:06:23
soon I will be understandable....
still in regards for a Pullitzer Prize, I have to apologies for my syntax, it's always the same especially when I'm in urge.
You may be have to deal it now cause you're editing some of the Soleil catalogue, who are for the most of them books who had been tought at a 48 pages size, so if you're publishing it in 2 issues, it's sure that if you pick up issue 2 you'll really have the feeling to jump on the train, in contrast with comic-books with as I said the traditionnal one page-panel at the beginning, that help to consider an issue who will either be collected in trade for what it is : a chapter. The use of the one page-panel at the beginning and in the end -except for the splash-pages elsewhere in the story-is also an interesting topic but not my point.

What I dared to say about the Bendis flashback that I found misplaced is a bridge to talk about continuity in stories.If Hawkeye had this tought in the Maleev's issue with the Scarlet Witch or in between his resurrection and his come-back ( because in the Maleev'issue it would have ruin the purpose : it seem at the end of the Maleev ' issue that Clint is now Wanda's champion, and having the flashback who make him the champion of the spirit of Cap would have been disturbing...please I'm not here to rewrite instead of the writers ); I have the same feeling with Bucky's return, it seem to me too arrivist. The inner life of the character is an interesting point of view to me in stories, ( what made me said that I don't understand why Carol Danvers hadn't Brood nightmares, or that makes me disagree with some characters who dispatch his feelings of guilt especially to the end of one episode, tought it have to be done somewhere of course -yeah after lunch for me), these examples in front of the gradual work made about the status of Wolverine in X-Men, but yes, things are not especially graduals.

I'm not especially to use things from litterature and movies for nothing or as gadgets, but it 'll be interesting to have a special story-arc of let's say the Mighty Avengers from a different character point of view by episode, from the beginning to the end.I'm not talking about WonderMan thinking over 600 pages how many sugars in his coffee, neither 'we fight Doctor Doom today... not the kind of guy he used to be..easy...but Carol didn't departed of this curious pin's ', the members of the team are very numerous, even if they 're well characterized, it's sometimes very dense. Another example direct of my long lost childhood was the fact that the Marvel titles were published in magazines, in disregard sometimes with the real chronology of the US ( the golden age X-Men in one, the new (Claremont-Byrne era in another ), and in each magazines you had a resume of the content of the others.Duing to a syntax effect, the publishers tended to say that 'meanwhile The Champions tadada, The Eternals tadada' that made me first think that it was one and unique story ( think of my dellusion ) or at last that all the teams were tied-in each others very close.So why not a story-arc with only four or five of the team, then even very later another four of five, the teams inside the team ? Actually using this 'meanwhile effect' the same way you used the sense of catastrophe since 'Civil War', 'World War Hulk' and 'Secret Invasion '.

As for feelings that end at the end of the episode ( I tought about the new Guardian - I must say that I don't especially enjoy the choice of Michael Pointer,it's almost cynical; he could have been a wonderful Jack Of Heart of the Initiative, with a new suit designed by Stark, and could have deal with his feelings about the Alphans he killed...later; does it have absolutely to be a new Guardian ? Why not use the inner mythologia of Omega Flight : Madison Jeffries, Diamond Lil, Manikin, Flashback, a new Nemesis..? ), I hope we'll have some non-linear cross-overs, beginning with a mini about The Rangers until they realize they can't handle the threat ,and some others members of the Initiative could show-up..I think it's better to make the Marvel mythologia more coercitive, you'll had the feeling that everything can happen in every tittles.
Despite, I totally agree with the new formula of you about mini-series, it may be difficult with some characters about making an ongoing about them, but they're still interesting, I particulary enjoyed the latest 'Last Defenders' focusing on the building of the team.
Do Omega Flight have to be the only ones to fight The Great Beasts ( yes, Tanaraq said :'first we take Ottawa...') ?
Can't they also fight Loki,Diablo, or the Mole-Man ,or Apocalypse, Canada can't have mutants who don't want to be under the government control, and become kinda Resistance's teams ?
Same for the Winter Guard.

Re-reading , I definetely have no excuses for my syntax.
That's not all, I've challenged someone to use the term of 'reluctent' in my post, even if I don't know what it mean ?
How will I do ?

Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-06-20 01:15:33
deleted, why ?
Probably duing to a syntaxic complex.This time, I’ll say that I wasn’t very well awaken.
But it wont be said etc….
About accessibility, I tend to think it’s the writing who had to be the main point to interest newcoming readers. An example right from my childhood is the fact that the translated Marvel titles were published in differents magazines, at first sometimes in disregard of the currently on States ( Golden Age X-Men in one mag, the new –Claremont and Byrne era in another ) and in each of these magazines you had a resume of the content of the others.
Plus, the publishers used a strange ( that was the name of one of these mag by the way ) syntaxic effect that implied that all the stories were very closely tied –in, what I would call the ‘meanwhile effect’ ( think of my delusion ) like this : ‘meanwhile the Champions tadadad, the Eternals tadadad…’. I still think about it, and something I’d like to find in comics now.
I think it give a more coercitive aspect of the diversity of the MU, to have some guests unannounced on the cover ( I’d like to read let’s say a story with the Rangers who finally realizes that they can’t handle the threat and that someone else of the Initiative have to come up; to this point of view I really liked the Last Defenders mini, focusing about the building of the team ) or to have to focus on specifical characters in the same way you used the sense of catastrophe since ‘Civil war’ followed by ‘World War Hulk’ and now ‘Secret Invasion’. Why the Avengers-or another team- have to fight Doctor Doom and after that the MoleMan ? Evil don’t take turns, it grow where it can, why not four or five of the Mighty Avengers discovering something wrong behind something strange that Doom is planning, meanwhile four or five others are on something else ( or has it to be especially Omega Flight who have to fight the Great Beasts, can’t they fight Loki, or Apocalypse ? )…after all we don’t have to have all the Mighty in each issue, even if it’s very well written and characterized , it’s also very dense.
I’m not also for style effects –from literature and movies- for the touch of being experimental, these ways of telling a story have to have a purpose, and not being only a gadget, by for example having a story-arc of a team seen from his beginning to his end by a different character in each of the different chapters.That’s the same about the inner life of each character, who is a strongest point to make also readers connecting to a title : have a moral problem have to always been solutionned especially at the end of a story-arc ( I’m thinking Michael Pointer and his guilty feelings in Omega Flight, there I have to say that I don’t especially agreed with the choice of this pecular character, I think he would have made a wonderful Jack of Hearts of the Initiative, with a new suit designed by Stark, I don’t think this accessibility choice is a good one, Omega Flight doesn’t need especially a new Guardian, there’s some efficient possibilities in the Flight inner mythologia : Madison Jeffries, Diamond Lil, Flashback, Puck, Manikin, a new Nemesis to make a decent title that US Agent or Arachne and Beta Ray are not especially needed, ok that’s transition or instalment but I’ll be better pleased to see all of them in a brand new Force Works. Why not ? ), what made me say in a latest post that I don’t understand why Carol Danvers had not Broods nightmare every issue. The inner life is not especially tied to the external conflict or the story-arc it self, but they can be part of it, a character can be completely off the fight duing to his inner life ( there’s already the Sentry by the way but also some misunderestimate characters like Wonderman )

(…)


Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-06-20 10:25:28
deleted, why ? (part 2 )
(…)

I guess we have by the force of things something like this 'meanwhile effect' in pratically each books, but I intented to consider it under one or two differents sub-plots.That's all.

I' m also, as reader but also sandwich provider if you want, very found of the off-register stories, when horror melt with sci-fi and fantastic melt with hard-boiled; or like Lars Von Trier did with 'The idiots', including an orgy in his story and showed it us, or like John Cassavetes did with 'Opening night' , or Tarantino in 'From dusk till dawn'; : crossing over registers.That's why I still love comics too, they made me look for new and all differents authors, all different kind of stories; I discovered Nietzsche in a 'X-Factor' book and not ashamed to say it.
I enjoyed very much the Mike Leigh' movie : 'Naked', and that's funny that David Thewlis got the role he got in Harry Potter, cause in 'Naked', he said to Katrin Cartlridge that he 'used to be a werewo-oo-olf but he's okay now' and he's very credible; and at every part of the story you expect him to change- but he doesn't- but that's almost a beginning for a cross-over. I' d really like to read a 'Werewolf by Night ' story of the stuff that the Leigh's movie is made of.

Accessibility ?…uh…

more one-shots….



Posted by notapotatoe on 2008-06-20 14:51:50
OH GOD, I HATE THOSE THINGS.
First of all, as a designer, I think those recap pages look f*ck ugly and I can't stand the off-putting mood that the black backgrounds give. I'd rather see a smaller box of recap text cleverly situated somewhere within a beautiful splash page/spread. Also the grammar and syntax on those pages is always so embarassingly awful. The Marvel recap page also ignores the craft of comic book storytelling and thus undermines the IQ level of younger readers. If Editors' notes made it feel like reading your Grandpa's comics, then recap pages make it feel like you're reading your GREAT Grandpa's comics.

I say get rid of it. It's a visual medium so even if one manages to make an intelliegent case that the recap page is vital, guess what, it still just looks ugly. So get of rid of it.

Posted by underscore on 2008-06-21 16:53:53
Just thinking...
Would it help if the recap page just stated "Previously in [whatever comic you're reading right now]", followed by carefully picked panels from previous issues? Just uncommented flashes of what happened in the storyline so far?
I mean, it works for TV shows...

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-06-21 21:27:30
just thoght you would like to know
Brand new day has killled Spider-Man. I have not bought a single comic since it was released. I however seem to not be alone:

2 Amazing Spider-Man 546 $3.99 Marvel 127,856
9 Amazing Spider-Man 547 $2.99 Marvel 101,132
10 Amazing Spider-Man 548 $2.99 Marvel 97,881
3 Amazing Spider-Man 549 $2.99 Marvel 101,048
9 Amazing Spider-Man 550 $2.99 Marvel 90,817
13 Amazing Spider-Man 551 $2.99 Marvel 88,029
4 Amazing Spider-Man 552 $2.99 Marvel 89,808
8 Amazing Spider-Man 553 $2.99 Marvel 82,624
14 Amazing Spider-Man 554 $2.99 Marvel 81,048
8 Amazing Spider-Man 555 $2.99 Marvel 86,885
14 Amazing Spider-Man 556 $2.99 Marvel 78,442
16 Amazing Spider-Man 557 $2.99 Marvel 77,041
20 Amazing Spider-Man 558 $2.99 Marvel 76,944
21 Amazing Spider-Man 559 $2.99 Marvel 74,184
23 Amazing Spider-Man 560 $2.99 Marvel 73,991

The first number is the overall rank of the book in sales.(on a monthly basis)
The ending number is the amount of units sold to comic book stores.
Does anyone notice a pattern?

I am sure "Joe Q. Clueless" has noticed and I am sure his bosses have noticed.


Posted by romanpas on 2008-06-23 00:06:53
I know here is a place to free expression, but ...some people should
just

don't

Posted by bulgarianyogurt on 2008-06-23 01:03:22
Michael,
What you are suggesting has been done somewhat in the Incredible Hercules book and done well, I think.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-06-23 14:32:21
Okay, I haven't read those. Yet. Is it better than the prose recap pages the other books have? Is it more accessible?

Posted by Michael Heide on 2008-06-23 20:46:30
romanpas
Those numbers are pretty dreary, but if you look at the big picture, everything else is up so dramatically that I don't thing Joe Q's bosses are planning anything for him but raises.

Posted by bigdaddyhub2 on 2008-06-23 23:55:47